2021 Race 21: Australia

Image
Discussion for the main FiHS F1 Championship

Moderators: Pace Racing, Higpup, Koolbrown, JoshJ81

Post Reply
JohnW
Jaded Figurehead
Posts: 13577
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:12 am
Location: High Desert, California

2021 Race 21: Australia

Post by JohnW »

Server is up. Temp is 17c
Image
JohnW
Jaded Figurehead
Posts: 13577
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:12 am
Location: High Desert, California

Re: 2021 Race 21: Australia

Post by JohnW »

Added SRH Real Road, and upped the temp to 20c. ( Real Life is supposed to be 22c, but I thought that was too big of a change from the 17c you raced at already.
Image
Otto Acosta
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:50 am

Re: 2021 Race 21: Australia

Post by Otto Acosta »

Joined the server tonight, after struggling to find time to practice all weekend but there about 20 mins left until the session ended and once it did I was not able to re-start the weekend because there was another driver on the server but away from his PC and couldn't see my pleads for voting...needless to say I had to bailed out without completing the tests I went on the server to do.

I thought you could setup the server in such a way that if there is no one out on track and the session had ended anyone could re-start the weekend without the need for people voting.

Rant over, see you all tomorrow for our last race of the season.
"To finish first, you first have to finish" - Mario Andretti
JohnW
Jaded Figurehead
Posts: 13577
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:12 am
Location: High Desert, California

Re: 2021 Race 21: Australia

Post by JohnW »

I thought 50% vote was all that was needed. So, it if was you and one other, the vote should have worked. I'll check the setting for future reference. Or, I could make you an Admin so you can skip voting all together!
Image
Otto Acosta
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:50 am

Re: 2021 Race 21: Australia

Post by Otto Acosta »

I like the admin idea :-)
"To finish first, you first have to finish" - Mario Andretti
Juice
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:34 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: 2021 Race 21: Australia

Post by Juice »

I see I'm over 4 seconds off pace. So unless someone spills the beans on how you find high downforce and low drag, and have the brakes make it to the end of the race. I'm out.
JohnW
Jaded Figurehead
Posts: 13577
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:12 am
Location: High Desert, California

Re: 2021 Race 21: Australia

Post by JohnW »

Juice,

My theory is that the ducts make more of a difference that I suspect, so they aren't running much less DF than you or I. The other thing, I believe, is that they have buttons mapped for the boosts and use them on the straights, where I just can't keep track of all the buttons and it tends to distract me from my braking point. Of course, they also have better corner speed, and corner exit speed. It all adds up. They make the brakes last by actively changing the brake bias during the race and sometimes during a lap. Again, I just don't have the buttons on my wheel to control all of that or be able to keep is all straight.

The last mystery for me is always how they make the fuel last. I don't know if I could get to the last lap with enough fuel if I messed with the boost that much. Luckily, I'm at least 2 laps down by then and don't have to worry about making all the laps.
Image
Juice
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:34 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: 2021 Race 21: Australia

Post by Juice »

JohnW wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:51 pm Juice,

My theory is that the ducts make more of a difference that I suspect, so they aren't running much less DF than you or I. The other thing, I believe, is that they have buttons mapped for the boosts and use them on the straights, where I just can't keep track of all the buttons and it tends to distract me from my braking point. Of course, they also have better corner speed, and corner exit speed. It all adds up. They make the brakes last by actively changing the brake bias during the race and sometimes during a lap. Again, I just don't have the buttons on my wheel to control all of that or be able to keep is all straight.

The last mystery for me is always how they make the fuel last. I don't know if I could get to the last lap with enough fuel if I messed with the boost that much. Luckily, I'm at least 2 laps down by then and don't have to worry about making all the laps.
Tested ducts, did not see any huge difference. I ran brake ducts at 100% open, brakes still failed.
I ran max boos, low fuel, soft tires, still could not come anywhere close to "stay on lead lap" pace at any of the races.
Even with the PC tuning and wheel driver reinstall, I only gained control and consistency. Did NOTHING for lap times.

So I can only come to one or more of the following conclusions:
I just suck at this, but I seem to recall the Indy races I was semi successful that night.
my computer and wheel combo are junk,
there is some info that is not even hinted at by the fast guys. Computer setting, wheel setting, garage setting or a combination of all of those.
So I have no desire to start the race to have it be nothing but frustration ending in mechanical failure.
Otto Acosta
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:50 am

Re: 2021 Race 21: Australia

Post by Otto Acosta »

I find it very hard to believe brakes fail at this track with duct set at 100%!

On this mod, duct and radiator make a BIG difference on lap time, I believe it could be anywhere from .5 to 1 sec between lowest setting on both vs highest setting.

It comes down to adapting. Most of us have had to adapt our driving styles to make the most out of this mod since it has some peculiarities, to put it mildly. I have seen guys that last year were losing their brakes even when running at 100% adapting in such a way that now they can do it with 50% or even less.

Having said that, next year we should be getting a new mod in which, I've been told, brake ducts don't have as much influence on lap times and engine temps will be better align with reality.

Still, if anyone is looking for help, I would be more than happy to get on track and TS and try to help you.
"To finish first, you first have to finish" - Mario Andretti
Juice
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:34 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: 2021 Race 21: Australia

Post by Juice »

Brakes failed at all races.
1 second from ducts aint jack when I'm 7 seconds off pace. I could only get 1:28 here.
Brakes were a secondary concern. Not being able to come close to the top speeds is the big one.
We shall see next season, but I doubt it will be any different.
There is no fun factor left in being last year after year.
User avatar
Jeff Oppenheim
Posts: 624
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:42 pm
Location: Texas

Re: 2021 Race 21: Australia

Post by Jeff Oppenheim »

Juice, I had a deal one time where my pace was off and brakes had high wear.

Turned out my brakes were mis-calibrated and they were never completely off, dragging all the time. The DRS is a good tell-tale for this. DRS will not come on if brakes are in the least engaged.

Also, just recently same thing was happening to Steve Broderson while we were lapping.

As to wing and duct drag, here's some info from a test I did on the long straight at China a few months ago:

Cost in Top Speed, kph per click
Front Wing 0.35 kph
Rear Wing 0.53
Radiator Ducts 0.58
Brake Ducts 0.50

Just for interest, all moot now.......this year's mod is done.......

But I'm sorry you had such a lousy season. You'll bounce back, yes? You and I have had some good battles over the years ( on the occasions when you didn't disappear in to the distance! ), and I hope for some more.
"When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just...waiting."
Michael Delaney, "Le Mans"
Juice
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:34 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: 2021 Race 21: Australia

Post by Juice »

Jeff Oppenheim wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:59 pm Juice, I had a deal one time where my pace was off and brakes had high wear.

Turned out my brakes were mis-calibrated and they were never completely off, dragging all the time. The DRS is a good tell-tale for this. DRS will not come on if brakes are in the least engaged.

Also, just recently same thing was happening to Steve Broderson while we were lapping.

As to wing and duct drag, here's some info from a test I did on the long straight at China a few months ago:

Cost in Top Speed, kph per click
Front Wing 0.35 kph
Rear Wing 0.53
Radiator Ducts 0.58
Brake Ducts 0.50

Just for interest, all moot now.......this year's mod is done.......

But I'm sorry you had such a lousy season. You'll bounce back, yes? You and I have had some good battles over the years ( on the occasions when you didn't disappear in to the distance! ), and I hope for some more.
My controls worked fine, no brake drag as DRS was working. Reinstalling the wheel drivers did wonders for comfort and consistency, but did nothing for lap times. I found the front wing to have the biggest impact on top speed. Rear wing I had to run at minimum, anything more just made the car slower.

That said, this is what I observed at COTA that just baffles me. The last right hand turn, my speed was 20-30mph SLOWER than the top guys. Low downforce? No, that would mean I would have top speed on everyone on the straights. But my top speed was still down. I can only come to one conclusion: There is something I am missing as far as setup, computer setup, or driver skill.
All I know at this time is I will NOT be racing if I can't even stay on the lead lap, ever again. Done with not having fun after 20 years of online racing. And it would be just as boring to me if I drove away from the field week after week. (4Dsux)

So, what am I missing?
User avatar
Jeff Oppenheim
Posts: 624
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:42 pm
Location: Texas

Re: 2021 Race 21: Australia

Post by Jeff Oppenheim »

Ok, not brakes then.

Hmnn...could you have been dragging the ground?

Insufficient ride height or 3rd springs maybe?
"When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just...waiting."
Michael Delaney, "Le Mans"
JohnW
Jaded Figurehead
Posts: 13577
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:12 am
Location: High Desert, California

Re: 2021 Race 21: Australia

Post by JohnW »

Juice,

As I said before, the fast guys do not just set their boost at one level and leave it the whole race. They have a temp boost button they use a lot. They use the regular boost button on straights as well, when they are not conserving fuel. I really feel that they use higher wings than you do so they can make the corners faster and then boot on the straights. Based on suggested settings I was given, I am fairly certain I am correct. As for brakes, in at least one race this year, Rich H used a 15% brake duct setting and survived the whole race, but it was close.
Image
Juice
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:34 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: 2021 Race 21: Australia

Post by Juice »

JohnW wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:04 am Juice,

As I said before, the fast guys do not just set their boost at one level and leave it the whole race. They have a temp boost button they use a lot. They use the regular boost button on straights as well, when they are not conserving fuel. I really feel that they use higher wings than you do so they can make the corners faster and then boot on the straights. Based on suggested settings I was given, I am fairly certain I am correct. As for brakes, in at least one race this year, Rich H used a 15% brake duct setting and survived the whole race, but it was close.
Tried that, did not see any huge increase in power or pure straight line speed. Come to think of it, temp boost had no detectable affect on power.
It is like I am down on power. Even when I could come close to top speeds, it was late on the straights. The fast guys are hitting their top speeds much earlier. Again, indicating a lack of power. But WHY
Post Reply