2021 Race 16: Monza

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JohnW
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2021 Race 16: Monza

Post by JohnW »

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Higpup
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Re: 2021 Race 16: Monza

Post by Higpup »

Well that sucked. For some reason once I tried a pass on Glyn, I totally lost my rhythm, which allowed Haynie to catch me. We touched tires in turn turn 1 and I avoided a collision, moving over grass. I was wondering why I couldn't get going, I was in neutral, then shifted and spun it 180 degreees. Spun it back to get going, and started to go and spun it again right into the wall.
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Juice
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Re: 2021 Race 16: Monza

Post by Juice »

Controls fixed, still slow.
Ended up uninstalling/reinstalling wheel drivers/profiler. Much improved driving experience.

Good race, minor mistakes, no damage till end, and got to checkers.

Still way off pace on the straights. How do you guys make the corners without downforce? I lost my brakes at the end, which took off the front wing as a result. I was instantly 10 mph faster on the straight limping it to the checkers.
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Higpup
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Re: 2021 Race 16: Monza

Post by Higpup »

Combo low wings, low brake duct, and using brakes as little as possible. I had 35% duct and that was going to be 50/50 I would run out of brakes. In SRH I had 45% and did OK but had 2.59 on brakes left.
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JohnW
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Re: 2021 Race 16: Monza

Post by JohnW »

Juice,

I ran a 17/30 wings, but I heard tell of guys down in the 11/30 range. Not sure how well the front brakes would work at that wing setting. But, they got on the podium and I did not.

What I learned is a need to relearn how to use the brakes. My right front failed in the low 30 lap range.
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Higpup
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Re: 2021 Race 16: Monza

Post by Higpup »

I ran 13/30
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JohnW
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Re: 2021 Race 16: Monza

Post by JohnW »

How many kph did the lower wing gain?
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Juice
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Re: 2021 Race 16: Monza

Post by Juice »

I had mine 20/30.
So basically to be fast, drop wings to minimum. Got it.

So I have to ask: when did we ditch realism? Fastest laps should not be with "no" downforce.
Why do we have brakes failing? Again, watching the real F1 races, noone ever retires for brake failure.
Guess this is more of a question for Janos.
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Jeff Oppenheim
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Re: 2021 Race 16: Monza

Post by Jeff Oppenheim »

Juice! Good drive!
After my early 4-off at the second chicane I had a good battle with John for several laps until he had a mistake and fell back. Then I set off to try to catch you, but to no avail. For the remainder of the race the gap stayed the same despite my best efforts. So good job, well done.
After all these several years of never really improving beyond my middle-of-the-pack competency, I'm going to change my setup approach to try to optimise corner exit and see if that helps. Like you, I'm always wondering how the fast guys get away with such low front wings! ( I also had 17/30 for this race. )
See all you'se guys in Sochi.
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Otto Acosta
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Re: 2021 Race 16: Monza

Post by Otto Acosta »

Juice wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:12 pm So I have to ask: when did we ditch realism? Fastest laps should not be with "no" downforce.
Why do we have brakes failing? Again, watching the real F1 races, noone ever retires for brake failure.
Guess this is more of a question for Janos.
Have you seen the wings that real F1 normally use on this track?
Well, most cars had 'some' wing on them, but this is Monza after all. Its all about straight line speed.
Also, brakes failed because people were using small brake ducts to get that extra top speed.
This track is about that, top speed, not handling.

Good job finishing the race, not easy around here.
"To finish first, you first have to finish" - Mario Andretti
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Jeff Oppenheim
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Re: 2021 Race 16: Monza

Post by Jeff Oppenheim »

Hey guys, did some drag tests at China and found the following:

At top speed, Front wing costs about 0.35 kph per click, Rear 0.53 kph per click

Brake ducts cost 0.50 kph/click

Rad: about 0.57 kph/click
"When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just...waiting."
Michael Delaney, "Le Mans"
Juice
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Re: 2021 Race 16: Monza

Post by Juice »

Otto Acosta wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:30 pm

Have you seen the wings that real F1 normally use on this track?
Well, most cars had 'some' wing on them, but this is Monza after all. Its all about straight line speed.
Also, brakes failed because people were using small brake ducts to get that extra top speed.
This track is about that, top speed, not handling.

Good job finishing the race, not easy around here.
I was watching the prerace show recently and they were talking about a crash in practice, and how they have so much downforce on these cars, when something goes wrong they just snap lose and crash.

I was actually starting to run less brake ducts and increasing brake temps, gained braking stability AND brake life. (monza brake failure happened with 1 to go) And most dnf's in real F1 are engine/trans or some other tech failure, but not the brakes.

Just sayin', seems kinda backwards to me. :)
JohnW
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Re: 2021 Race 16: Monza

Post by JohnW »

"when did we ditch realism? Fastest laps should not be with "no" downforce.
Why do we have brakes failing?"

I don't think we really did ditch realism. However, there is a line in the sand where the car is too hard for us amateurs to drive and people will complain and not show up. So, a compromise is almost always needed. Think about it. How often in the past did you have real trouble with car handling and considered not continuing?

As for the brakes. that's easy. We don't have a wall of technical data that engineers watch during the events and dial in the exact brakes for each driver. Rich Walcott ran 15% brake ducts with no issue. I ran 30 and they let go at lap 30. That's not the mods fault. It's mine. I think Rich Hayne had the same as Rich W. So the brakes can last, if the driver has very good technique. For the last few years I have given up trying to trail brake and just do straight line braking. But my setups allowed the rears to lock easily, so I resorted to modulating the brakes quickly to stop that, but... I ran out of the front brake.
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